Thoughts on the so-called Patch Knife.

I have often wondered if there ever was such a knife as the Patch Knife in the 18th century. I carry three knives for practicle reasons, the hunting knife at my belt, the legging knife in my right legging, and a clasp knife in my waistcoat pocket. I would not want to carry a fourth knife, and I have always used my ready to hand hunting knife for cutting patch material.
Having said that, I have not carried a flintlock rifle for years, and only use my fusil. Patch material was not used with smoothbores in the 18th century, in fact even early rifles did not use patch material. Some people suggest that the clasp knife was used to cut the patch material, but to my mind the whole process of getting this knife out, then opening the blade, cutting the material, closing the blade and putting it away again just simply takes too long when taking a second shot or more.

I welcome any constructive comments or information on this subject.

Dutch 1604.

 Trade butcher knives commonly used as hunting knives in the 18th century.

A more up-market hunting knife (Metmuseum).

18th century hunting knife.

French trade knives.

20th Century Butcher Knife Conversion. Part One.

 As the knife was originally.

 After the conversion.

I changed the chape of the tang, which in turn changed the shape of the blade. I made and fitted a new handle using pins as in 18th century knives.

Found In Australia. Part Seven.

 There really should not be a need to spend big money on purchasing period correct knives. Most knives off the shelf are not period correct and custom knives can be costly. But second hand shops often sell good butcher knives that make excellent hunting knives. 20th century knives will require a new handle to be period correct, but 19th and 18th century knives are fine as is.
All these knives were found in either a market or a second hand shop with prices ranging from $2.00 to $18.00.

 A French butcher knife.

 Two very similar English butcher knives. The handles are pinned and not riveted which is period correct.

 This blade probably French, was a lot larger than show here, almost twice the size. I reshaped this blade and made and fitted the handle..

 This one is a 20th century knife and not much good as is. The blade is very worn, and the handle is riveted. But the steel is good, and I was thinking of making a jack knife out of it.

 This jack knife has had new bone slab handles fitted.

 English butcher knife with a pinned handle.

This is a great little knife which I presently use as a legging knife. 

Guest Speaker, Listen Up!

My friend Vieuxbois is not only a follower of this blog, but he is a valued international member of our 18th century living history group. What he has to say below regarding knives & battoning is in response to my recent article. It is really good to get the point of view from another person whos life is spent in the wild and often depends on the blades he carries with him.
My sincere thanks to Vieuxbois for this information.

Vieuxbois has left a new comment on your post "Knife Battoning! NOT!":

Frozen wood is ``brittle`` and easy to split. But it’s also very hard. Furthermore, steel is also more brittle when it’s very cold (it’s better to keep the protected blade warm by holding it close your body). So if I need to split frozen wood (which is rare and exceptional) there is more risk to damage a knife than an axe : an axe edge is generally thicker than a knife, there is more material to support the stress.

In my opinion, there are no reason for batoning with a knife unless if :

1. It’s not your choice, you need to do it : you are in a survival situation (or a survival training) with only a knife to work with, so you do with what you have, and you do it carefully because you want/need to preserve what you have like a treasure because your life depends on it. If you are in a true survival situation why would you risk breaking your knife? Break your knife and your chance of survival goes down.

2. You are playing like a kid, so you pay the game price.

3. It`s your choice, you want to do it : so you will use a very strong knife with an appropriate design/materials and heat treatment if you want to keep this tool in good condition. But does this very strong knife will do the same job than a thin blade? Of course I can carry both.

Vieuxbois has left a new comment on your post "Knife Battoning! NOT!":

From Thin, Sharp, Knives - Posted: 9 September, 2011 in http://bfelabs.com/2011/09/09/thin-sharp-knives/ : `` If you look around the working world, at the knives that are regularly used to do work, you might notice some startling differences between those knives and what is prominent in the popular knife industry. Particularly the “survival”, “tactical”, and “hard use” arenas of popular knife-making (both custom and production).
In these arenas we typically see heavy knives, from thick stock, with study handles and generally robust construction. We are told that this robustness is desirable, even absolutely necessary, for these tools to withstand the rigors of hard use. And the market sucks them up about as fast as they can be made, with companies like TOPS Knives producing ever-new variants of these beefy blades for battle and conquering barren-wastes. But what is being bought, and what is actually being used, are far different. What people actually work with is often something very different. The prominent working knife is not a robust, stout, knife but rather a thin, sharp, knife.
I was at a branding recently, out here in cattle country, and took note of the knives being used. For those unfamiliar, when branding calves it is also common practice to ear-mark with a notch in an ear and castrate. These tasks require a deft hand with a sharp knife, particularly when the calf is not forced into an immobilizing squeeze chute, but is rather roped out and held down. I’ve taken part in and observed this process numerous times in my life, and there is a great commonality to the knives being used: They are thin, sharp, knives. The same knives most of the cowboys and ranch hands carry in their pockets daily, and use for everything.

Vieuxbois has left a new comment on your post "Knife Battoning! NOT!":

The thin, sharp, knife is not unique to this environment, but rather common to every other. Moving out from the traditional slipjoint folder common to the ranching west, a survey of other traditional folding knife designs would turn up a variety of styles, locks, and construction methods, but one commonality: Thin, sharp, blades. Moving from folders, to fixed blade knives, we see the same variety in design and construction in traditional designs, but a great many have the same commonality of thin blades. The traditional Scandinavian knives, as typified by the Mora so common to woodscraft, are an easily accessible example of the type.
Thin blades are not limited to small knives, either. Many old-time woodsmen, frontiersmen, mountainmen, etc. who used big knives carried ones that, rather than resembling the Iron Mistress of Hollywood, more resembled a butcher knife, being thin although long. Now, some may use the argument that we know more than they did, and thus make more appropriate choices, but that is simply nonsense. Anyone who makes a living with a tool, or depends on it for his own life, on a day-to-day basis, knows far more about selecting the right type of that tool than anyone who does not do the same, no matter the other mans “knowledge”.

Vieuxbois has left a new comment on your post "Knife Battoning! NOT!":

If so many who’s lives depended on their knives choosing thinner blades historically holds little sway, then the fact that the trend is a modern one too should tell us something. Today, if we take a survey of the knives being used routinely, we would find many of them to be far thinner than what we’ve come to expect (or been told to expect). And not just small knives: While so many Americans and others influenced by the major knife market are of the opinion that a heavy, thick-spined, knife is required for chopping or “serious” woods work, much of the rest of the world relies on something far different; The machete, or some variant thereof.
Different tools are appropriate for different tasks. There is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, a place for robust knives. One of the most valuable characteristics of contemporary knifemaking is the rise of robust locking systems for folding knives. The matching rise of the robust blade, however, may not be the best thing. But it is important to recognize that place, and use the right tool for the right job. For the majority of tasks for which a knife is used, a thick bladed knife is not the right tool. This includes many “hard” tasks, from woodscraft to cowboying to “tactical” environments (whatever those are). You aren’t necessarily wrong is you carry a robust knife for these, or even more mundane, daily uses, but you should ask yourself if that is truly what you need. Give some thought to whether cutting performance is a greater need than brute strength, and take a thinner knife better suited for cutting out for a spin sometime.``

Regards,

Blades of the 18th Century Woodsrunner 2.

Blades of the 18th Century Woodsrunner Part 1.

This video also available on my DVD Primitive Skills 2.

A Little More On Knives.

I have done a little more research on knives of the period, but from what I have found it seems there is little to no difference between 18th century trade knives and early 19th century trade knives. Trade knives in general were simply inexpensive butcher knives. I have read that the number of pins in the handle do not date the knife, but only serve to identify the type, e.g. the 6 pin butcher knife having 6 pins in the handle. However, in my experience those knives with more than 3 securing pins tend to be 19th century. Rivets of course as I mentioned in an earlier post are a 20th century type.
Some handles such as the 6 pin are two separate slabs which enclose the full tang. I have two original 19th century knives that only have 5 pins, but they are identical to the 6 pin style.

19th century butcher knives.

Some blades only had a very short tang which was inserted into a sawn slot handle and secured with 3 pins. 

Another type had a short pointed tang made for pushing into a handle, the same as a metal file. I also managed to purchase two of these in a second hand shop.

This lower one I use as a hunting knife. When I made a handle for it I drilled through handle and tang and inserted one brass pin to help secure the blade.

Found at an Iroquois site.

http://www.meadwildlife.org/index.php/mead-area-history/fur-traders/

http://www.wwnorton.com/college/english/nael/18century/topic_2/owen.htm

http://www.manuellisaparty.com/articles/butcher_knives.htm

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/18th-century-dug-knife-iroquois-site-ny

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=a1ARTA0003112

http://www.canadacutlery.com/product/facts_about_history1.pdf

http://www1.umassd.edu/euro/2007papers/brock.pdf

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=13261.0

This article is copyright Keith H. Burgess.

What You Need To get Started In 18th Century Historical Trekking. Part One.

What You Need To Get Started In 18th Century Historical Trekking. Part One.



Equipment.


1. A kettle can be useful for boiling water for hot drinks and cooking food, but it is not necessary. You could instead drink water from your water bottle and carry meat to cook on a stick or other foods that do not require cooking. If you want a kettle you could start off with just a tin can with a bale made of fencing wire. It is not authentic to the period, but it will suffice until you can get the real thing.

This is one I made many years ago. You can cook with this and use it as a cup.


2. Cotton or linen food bags. These are easily made and not expensive. A cheap calico will do fine.


3. You will probably need a knife at some time or another. A good hunting knife will do for cutting and eating food, and I suggest you check out the op-shops and second hand shops for second hand butcher knives. The handle should be pinned and not riveted, but you can change the handle if needs be.

One of these cost me $4 and the other $7. One like this will make a good hunting knife.


A sheath for one of these is easily made from second hand shoulder bag leather.

 This one of mine is double leather; a heavy leather inside a soft leather casing.


4. A tomahawk is a handy tool for constructing shelters and for many other tasks. It is not too difficult to convert a second hand hatchet into a tomahawk, which is lighter to carry than a hatchet.

This is a square poll hatchet head that has been lightened and the eye reshaped to take a tapered tomahawk helve.

This beautiful piece was made by Todd from the Woodlife forum, from a store bought hatchet.


5. A knapsack can be made from one of those made in China all cotton school knapsacks, or you can make one from a haversack or from scratch.

Here is the one I converted from an all cotton made in China knapsack.

A glass wine bottle with a cork will do for a water bottle, and modern ones are still being made in roughly the same 18th century style.

18th Century Wilderness Survival. Then and Now. The Knife.

I could quite easily have become a knife collector, I have a thing about knives. I have owned quite a few modern knives over the years, but none of them ever shaped up to my expectations. I learnt very early on that knives are individual things, and they have specific uses. There is in my opinion no such thing as an all round knife that can take the place of hatchet and knife.
I like a big knife for a hunting knife, but I don't like heavy knives. Throwing knives are great fun, but they are for throwing and do not perform well on other jobs. A hunting knife is for dispatching, skinning and butchering. In an emergency it may even be needed for hunting and defence.
A short blade can be good for skinning, but it does not have the length to reach an animals heart. Longer blades if heavy can be clumsy for skinning and butchering, but with practice a lighter blade can be used efficiently. As a professional meat hunter I always carried more than one knife, and I still do.
No matter where you are or the climate your working in the main object is to dispatch the animal as quickly as possible and to field dress it as cleanly and quickly as possible. One wrong stroke with a blade can dull it against bone, and that is when the second knife comes out so you can carry on.

The author's hunting knife and sheath. A large butcher knife but light.

Author's legging knife, light and simple construction.

Clasp knives are also good to carry as a spare knife.

Another simple large but light period butcher knife. This one cost the author seven dollars at a flea market.

A period whet stone to keep those blades sharp.